MEMRI.org | August 31, 2005
Nese Duzel, of the center-left, liberal Turkish daily Radikal, interviewed Turkish professor, former Turkish intelligence officer, and newspaper columnist Mahir Kaynak(1) on the subject of Al-Qaeda's global terrorism.(2) Kaynak claimed that the U.S. government was behind both 9/11 and the assassination of president John F. Kennedy. The interview was also quoted at length by columnists from other Turkish newspapers.
The following are excerpts from the interview:
There is No Al-Qaeda; It's a Code Name for a CIA Operation
Nese Duzel: "The world lives in an Al-Qaeda panic [...] What does someone [involved in] intelligence [like you] think about an organization that is present everywhere, yet cannot be seen or found anywhere?"
Mahir Kaynak: "[I would think] that there is no such organization."
Duzel: "So, isn't there an organization called Al-Qaeda? Are others carrying out the terrorism, while we all look for a non-existent organization?"
Kaynak: "There is no such organization as Al-Qaeda. When you talk about a [terrorist] organization, it should have political goals. There is no answer to the question of what the goals of Al-Qaeda are. Nobody knows what it wants to achieve. Whereas terrorist organizations like the IRA and ETA all have concrete goals and well-defined geographic areas. Al-Qaeda has none of these. No staff and no geographic area. The whole world is their battleground."
Duzel: "It is said that Al-Qaeda wants to establish a Taliban-style regime in the Islamic world. Don't you think this is Al-Qaeda's goal?"
Kaynak: "The goals must be in line with the means. You cannot take a pin and attempt to kill someone with it. Al-Qaeda cannot establish its preferred regime in the Islamic world by its own strength. It does not have the means, the numbers, or the supporters. The reality is that there is no such organization called Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda is the code name of an operation [undertaken] by an intelligence service. This is why we must first decipher this operation. There is an attempt to create some political consequences through this 'Al-Qaeda operation.'"
Duzel: "What political consequences are being created by Al-Qaeda terrorism?"
Kaynak: "The only results achieved by Al-Qaeda are the birth of anti-Islamic [sentiment] in the West and the identification of Islam with terrorism. We must find the answers to the questions of 'why is this result being sought?' and 'who wants this?' Al-Qaeda's actions are changing the balances in the world. It would be foolish to think that a small organization is [re]shaping the entire world. This is a large operation. One that first and foremost creates an anti-Islamic front of all the nations of the world."
Duzel: "What will be gained by the formation of an anti-Islamic front?"
Kaynak: "Today, there are two approaches to how the new world order should be built. One is the approach of the global capital. The other is the approach of Bush's America and Putin's Russia. The global capital adopts Huntington's 'Clash of Civilizations' thesis. It divides the world into Western civilization and those that remain outside of it, and wishes the 'new world balance [of power] to be built between the West and the others.' The second approach aims at reaching the [same] balance that existed in the past, with America on one side and Russia on the other. The current clashes in the world are about which way to choose to reach such balance [of power]. It seems that Bush's America and Putin's Russia are in agreement. Against them is the power of the global capital. Presently, there are no other powers with any political goals. The global capital has its own idea on how to govern the world."
Duzel: "What is that?"
Kaynak: "The global capital has a 'moderate Islam' policy. This is the policy of eliminating Islam's incompatibility with capitalism [...]. Global capital says, 'We will integrate Islam into the Western system and its markets and in so doing we will solve the problem.' Al-Qaeda, on the other hand, targets something very different [from the global capital]. It says, 'Let the Muslims become the enemy, the other.' The anti-Islamic front which is formed as a result of Al-Qaeda actions does not differentiate between moderate and radical. It sees all Muslims as terrorists. For an Islamic power center to create such results makes no sense. It is a Western power center that is doing all this. They are doing this in order to eliminate both the global capitalists' 'moderate Islam' model and political Islam."
Duzel: "Why would America want to destroy a 'moderate Islam' that does not clash with capitalism?"
Kaynak: "Because the global capital is [already] well organized within Islam. [...] Currently, there is a unity between the Saudi wealth and the global capital. America wants to destroy this. Otherwise, why would America want to change the Saudi regime, that was once deemed closer to the U.S. than any of its own states? Recently someone close to the Bush administration complained that a rich Arab had withdrawn his investments from the U.S. and directed them to Turkey, keeping the Turkish economy robust."
Duzel: "What is Turkey's place in this conflict?"
Kaynak: "Today, Turkey is one of the most important countries with its model of 'moderate Islam.' The [Turkish] government is not on good terms with America. Prime Minister Erdogan has complained that 'they are pushing buttons.' The Bush and Putin administrations want to eliminate the global capital thesis for moderate Islam. They [Bush and Putin] say that there can be no moderate Islam. 'Islam is one and all radical. You [the Muslims] will either become secular or you will disappear.' They want to stop Islam from being political. The conclusion is that the current clash is not between a man in the cave [i.e. bin Laden] and the world. The clash is between the global capital and Bush's America. Al-Qaeda is carrying out all the provocations on behalf of the side of Bush and Putin, to destroy the model of moderate Islam."
Duzel: "What do you mean by 'global capital?"
Kaynak: "Global capital does not run any corporation, industry and does not own them, but rather owns and uses the money. These people in the financial sector make use of funds that are not limited to their own wealth. [...] The global capital commands trillions of dollars and is as powerful as nation-states. They are not tied to any geography; the whole world is their place. If America fell, that would not disturb them either."
Duzel: "Is [George] Soros one of them?"
Kaynak: "Soros, Rothschild, [and] Rockefeller are representatives of the global capital. They have power that exceeds that of governments. The American and Russian governments are trying to eliminate the political power of the global capital. Al-Qaeda is [a tool] being used against this global capital and against Islam. But some continue to say that 'there is a man called Osama bin Laden in a cave in Afghanistan and he is fighting a war against the world.'"
The CIA is Carrying Out the 'Al-Qaeda' Operations... Terrorism is Carried Out by Governments... CIA Operatives Were Sent on Suicide Missions to Hit Their Own Twin Towers
Duzel: "Even if Al-Qaeda is the code name of an operation, there still is an organization that carries out the operation. How can there be an organization so strong that all the intelligence services of the world keep searching without success? In a way, it looks stronger than all of the intelligence agencies put together."
Kaynak: "The CIA carries out the Al-Qaeda operation, and the Putin administration knows about it. It may even be a partner to the operation. The intelligence services of other countries understand it, [but] it is not easy to do anything against America. Anyway, in operations conducted by states the truth does not emerge. [For example,] there is almost no doubt that Kennedy was assassinated by the state, but the evidence is never revealed. In this case, the men America uses are given the name 'Al-Qaeda.' For a certain act they select a few men and they carry out the action. They are not part of any organization, but just men that the CIA uses. This is terror that is committed by governments. They send these [men] on suicide missions. They hit their own Twin Towers. Such decisions are made by American policy makers. Bush may not even be aware. The CIA is an executive organ within the scope of a much greater power."
Duzel: "Did the CIA kill their fellow [U.S.] citizens by striking at the Twin Towers?"
Kaynak: "Why wouldn't the CIA carry out the [events of] September 11? What if they had told you that the alternative would be war? [That] had they not done this, they would have fought a war that would kill a million people?
"There were similar calculations during World War Two. There was a fight for the takeover of some areas, and it resulted in the deaths of 50 million people. Currently, the world is in a low-cost war. As parties to this war, we are shown Al-Qaeda on one side and the world on the other side. If you accepted this [as a fact], you would be totally irrational."
Duzel: "How so?"
Kaynak: "At the present time, results are being created that are similar to those at the end of World War [Two]. There is no way one can accept that [all] this is being accomplished by a handful of militants. [They say] that there is this power that, with its actions, is reshaping the world – but nobody is betraying the organization, no amount of reward money is helping, no information is being leaked. Why? Because there is no such organization called Al-Qaeda.
"According to the project, a few Muslims are used in the operations. They already knew such men, whom they had trained in Afghanistan and Pakistan against the Soviets. [...] These people are [usually] killed in action. All precautions are taken to prevent the leaking of information. The militant, for example, may not even know that he is a militant. You attract him to the secret service, then give him a bag to deliver. You blow up the bag by remote control. Here you've got a suicide bomber. You can ask a truck driver to transport milk and blow up [the truck] when it is on its way."
Secret Services Must Be Hiding bin Laden
Duzel: "Al-Qaeda has a ghost leader, just like the organization itself. He too cannot be seen or found. Can anyone being sought the way he is hide for such a long time without powerful support?"
Kaynak: "No, he cannot possibly hide. It must be secret services that are hiding him."
Duzel: "It is Al-Qaeda that linked Islam with terrorism. Thanks to Al-Qaeda, in the West the word 'Muslim' is associated with terrorism. Muslims are being persecuted everywhere. What could be Al-Qaeda's goal in linking Islam with terrorism like this?"
Kaynak: "Islam's political character is bound to be lost once it is associated with terrorism. The aim is to identify Islam with terrorism and thus disqualify Islam as an ideology or a political movement. If you want to kill a political thought, first you empty it of any ideal, and then you turn it into activism alone. This is how the Left was eliminated in Turkey. They first emptied the Left of thought, and then turned the Leftists' profile into one of 'armed activists.' It happened with the Kurdish movement too. It started as a movement of classes, then became terrorist. Today, the West is using the same method with Islam. The deep [i.e. covert] American government is eliminating political Islam."
Duzel: "Why do they want to get rid of 'political Islam'?"
Kaynak: "Political Islam was taking the place of the Left [in combating capitalism and imperialism]. Even in Western societies, the oppressed people had started seeing Islam as a religion of salvation. Now they are emptying Islam of its content, [and] at the same time they are ending the hegemony of the global capital in the Islamic countries. This is the battle of nation-states against the global capital. Global capital was opposed to the 'states' and was about to become more powerful than the 'states'. [...] [Nation-]states are trying to gain control over the global capital, which is a by-product of capitalism. The globalization mechanisms are being destroyed by Al-Qaeda's actions. The truth is that the rise of Islam in the world did not happen as a result of the dynamics within Islam itself. Had it not been for [the U.S.'s] Green Belt project(3) – a policy to contain the Soviet Union – we would not now be seeing so many people [Muslims] praying [five times a day]. But now that they [i.e. the Americans] realize how powerful the global capital has become within the Green Belt countries and political Islam, they want to get rid of both."
Duzel: "We [Turkey] have the additional problem of PKK terrorism. PKK is now adopting some bloody tactics from which they had refrained in the past. They are attacking civilian targets in [Turkey's] western regions. Why are they doing this?"
Kaynak: "It is no [longer] clear who PKK is. It is divided. Which part of it is carrying out the terrorism, or whether it really is PKK, are very questionable [issues]. PKK is in a fight with Iran and Syria. It is declared a 'terrorist' [organization] by both America and Europe. It does not get along with Barzani or Talabani. Would such an organization ever say, 'This many enemies are not enough for me. Let me also bring in the Turkish military forces so that I can be totally crushed?' It is some other powers that want to get rid of the PKK that are carrying out some acts of terrorism and attributing this to PKK. For example, if I were Barzani, I would have done something like this to get rid of the PKK problem. Because of these acts of terror, if we [Turkey] drive all those that are in Turkey into Iraq, they'd be left hungry and penniless, and since they would be isolated and have no political support anymore, they would be obliged to go under Barzani's command. The [best] way to eliminate an organization is not by using arms, but by buying them off. They want to destroy the PKK now, and the current plan is to get them under Barzani's control. This is what they are doing... Members of the PKK will become paid soldiers..."
(1) Professor Mahir Kaynak taught economics for many years, first at Istanbul University and then at Gazi University, and also served for 10 years as an officer in the Turkish intelligence agency MIT (Milli Istihbarat Teskilati). Prof. Kaynak is also a columnist for the centrist, mainstream Turkish daily STAR Gazete.
(2) Radikal (Turkey), August 1, 2005.
(3) In Turkish public opinion and the Turkish media, the Green Belt project is known as a U.S. Cold War-era policy designed to contain the USSR with the surrounding Islamic states. This policy is believed to have been in effect from the 1950s through the 1980s, when the U.S. supported Islamic governments and nurtured anti-Communist Islamist sentiment in Muslim countries such as Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Later, some Arab countries, including Iraq and Saudi Arabia, became part of this "belt."